By command of Chemosh, Mesha attacked Nebo and fought against Israel, and after a fierce struggle he took the place, slaying the inhabitants en masse, 7,000 men and women and maidservants, devoting the city to 'Ashtor-Chemosh and dragging the altar vessels of Yahweh before Chemosh. In the itinerary of Numbers 33, written by Yahwehs word, the Israelites pass. If he is all-good, why doesn't he avail himself of these means? And his son followed him and he also said, I will humble Moab. In my time he spoke thus, but I have triumphed over him and over his house, while Israel has perished forever! The incorrect understanding is the backwards assumption of omnipotence from later Persian influence. But grace is doing less than you are capable in the name of mercy and love. S o begins one of the most extraordinary ancient documents ever found. And I fought against the city and captured it. The Elohim of Abraham and the Elohim of Nahhor, they will judge between us, the Elohim of their father, and Jacob swore with the fear of his father Isaac. Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. Twitter. The Concise Matthew Henry Commentary, (2KG 3,7), 1838, https://religions.wiki/index.php?title=Jehovah_defeated_by_Chemosh&oldid=28918, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5. The 8th 9th century Yahwist Tradition (Num 21:15-31), 2. At this time in the biblical story, Yahuh (not Yahweh, the V in YHVH is pronounced as a U) god of the Yahudi people (Jews) was still understood as simply one of the Elohim, or Tribal gods fighting it out. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. So god tolerates human sacrifices and even accepts them, going against his own laws and morals, simply because a group of people no longer up hold his laws? Calvinism may have a hard time with this because they remove any element of human free-will, but I do not, because God kept his promise and let his people not accept it. 23 Now since the Lord, the God of Israel, has driven the Amorites out before his people Israel, what right have you to take it over? The Moabites suffer a series of military defeats. [37] Scholars say that YHWH is most likely derived from the Hebrew verb hayah, which means "to be.". The devil is in the details, it seems. Adonis | Anat | Asherah | Ashima | Astarte | Atargatis | It was for this crime that Solomon's kingdom was divided in the days of his son Rehoboam, and the northern kingdom given to the care of Jeroboam I, who had been commissioned for this role by the prophet Ahijah. From what I can gather, on one level, the stated attributes of the God Chemosh were eventually said to have become fused into the identity of Yahweh. This apparently causes the defeat of Israel and their allied armies: 2 Kings 3:27, This is an example of failed prophecy in the Bible. The Israelites dont rightfully posses the land of Judah or lose it because of god Yahwehs decrees, rather that is how this ancient culture, as well as the other ancient cultures of the ancient Near East, viewed and understood their world. Which god is the creator of the heavens and the earth: Yahweh OR El? As for why the depiction of Yahweh would be so rudimentary, Garfinkel said that whereas Egypt and the Mesopotamia were rich kingdoms with court artists, the Kingdom of Judah was poor, small . Certainly not Yahweh. Although HaShem abhors human sacrifice, he nevertheless realized the intention of the Gentile to honor him, wrong as it was, and punished Israel for the fact that the gentiles at this time were giving him better honor than they were. God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the gods: 2 How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Please, How would the Pre-Nicene Christians view the tumultuous events of today? And its fascinating and instructive to learn of these things from this perspective. Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26. Biblical scholars have also noted that Chemosh's role in the Moabite Stone inscription is analogous to that of Yahweh in the book of Kings. Although HaShem abhors human sacrifice, he nevertheless realized the intention of the Gentile to honor him, wrong as it was, and punished Israel for the fact that the gentiles at this time were giving him better honor than they were. (Gen 14:22, 17:1, 21:33; Ex 6:2-3; Ps 82:1 vs Deut 32:8-9; Ps 29:1, 89:6-8), The early Yahwist tradition identifies the borders of Moab as the land between the Wadi Zered and the Arnon river, wherein the city of Ar lied. The Hebrew word there, , is exclusively used in Classical Hebrew to describe the wrath of a deity. Disspossess so to inherit his land! (Deut 2:24, 31). (Num 10:12 vs Num 11:35), #27. The great wrath may refer to the divine wrath of Chemosh! Just as the worship of Yahweh set Israelites apart from other peoples during the Iron Age II, so did the Ammonites' worship of Milcom distinguish them from their closest neighbors and rivals. "I am Mesha, son Chemosh[it], king of Moab, the Dibonite.". 5 The gods know nothing, they understand nothing. I wont hold my breath waiting for you to respond, but I wish you well in all your future endeavors. Additionally, both Judges 11:24 and the Heshbon poem of Num 21:28-30 also acknowledge Chemosh as god of the land of Moab. First, he was Moab's national god. {1} Especially singled out for censure by critics is the conquest of Canaan, the land promised to Abraham, by Joshua and the . The god (ha-elohim) who answers by fire--he is God (ha-elohim)." Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, atheist w.r.t the Christian God | agnostic w.r.t others. That suggests it wasnt redacted until the exile period, when the Pentatuch was created, as opposed to an earlier JE redaction. ", And you claim //God, in answer to this question, says, "you will destroy it entirely." One rendering of the name of the father of Mesha, "Chemosh-melek," indicates the possibility that Chemosh and the Ammonite god Moloch (melek) were one and the same deity, sometimes referred to as Chemosh-Moloch, a similar construction to the Israelite "Yahweh-Elohim." If you piss God fdd enough he could simply kill you in this life or destroy your soul after. [1] However, there is an even greater significance to this verse. And from there I took the vessels of Yahweh, and I brought them before Chemosh.". Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. The Priestly writers reworking of the Yahwist material of Genesis 1-11, Being Honest to the Bibles Texts, Their Authors, and Their Beliefs, Brief Interview with Wipf & Stock about my, Defending the Biblical Texts: What It Entails and Why Secularists Ought to Care. Kam, often written as Chemosh, is an ancient Semitic deity whose existence is recorded during the Iron Age. Israelites engaged in human sacrifice as late as the time of the prophet Jeremiah, who says: "They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molech, though I never commanded it, nor did it enter my mind." After passing through Edom, did Yahweh speak to Moses about the dispossession of Moab, Edom, and Ammon OR not? Chemosh, the subduer, was the national god of the Moabites and was also worshiped by the Ammonites. Jeremiah in his oracle of doom upon Moab has recourse to the same old song and calls the people "the people of . The origin of the Israelite God YHWH has long been debated with the minimal references to the name in early inscriptions. 3 Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed. Credit is due under the terms of this license that can reference both the New World Encyclopedia contributors and the selfless volunteer contributors of the Wikimedia Foundation. Thus, it would seem that Semitic regard for respective national deities operated similarly from region to region. The borders of Moab are from the Zered to the Jabbok, that is both the Moabite and Amorite territories of the J and D traditions. How do we know that the biblical writers were not writing history? [3] New World Encyclopedia writers and editors rewrote and completed the Wikipedia article The Israelite attack on Jericho and the spoils reapedare a dedication to God: As Joshua tells his people, "Yahweh has given you the city. If so, Chemosh probably stood in the position of Asthar's husband, as did El to Asherah and Baal to Astarte. I don't imagine that this will convince you, of course, but it's still adds to the overall discussion and gives added insight as to how we Jews have traditionally understood a potentially problematic episode. Except youre ignoring OPs argument. Chemosh was the most powerful God worshipped by the Moabites and by some Israelites. Always start with that context. . Promised Lands Decreed by Ancient Near Eastern Gods to their Peoples. "The etymology of "Chemosh" is unknown. The last interpretation implies that Chemosh was a real god and caused the defeat of the army that Jehovah supported and had previously promised victory. Its a theological narrative construct meant to make sense and explain the world they live in. Yep Another story of People not trusting God. Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites whose name most likely meant "destroyer," "subduer," or "fish god." It is an attempt to understand man, including our forefathers, in all his aspects. Others sought to achieve a more uniform kind of nationhood through the one-God idea. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The find, known as the Moabite Stone or Mesha Stele, was a monument bearing an inscription commemorating the c. 860 B.C. This article abides by terms of the Creative Commons CC-by-sa 3.0 License (CC-by-sa), which may be used and disseminated with proper attribution. There's actually an interesting discussion of this in the Talmud, Sanhedrin 39b. Such synthesis reveals the masculinization of Ashtoreth, a Canaanite goddess worshiped by Moabites and other Semitic peoples. In short, the stele makes it clear that from the perspective of this Moabite scribe Chemosh controlled what befell the Moabites (blessings or curses) and who possessed the land. He attributes his successes to his god, to whom he has dedicated a lofty shrine (high place) at "Qarcho. (2 Kings 23:13). "Ashtar" here is probably equivalent to "Astarte," the Canaanite fertility goddess. ( , ) ". 7. We also learn that Chemosh communicated with the king, probably through a form of divination similar to the many biblical references to Israelite kings "inquiring of the Lord." Qetesh | Mar 4 19M. Elohim, singular Eloah, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. The Gemara asks: Granted, according to the one who says that he sacrificed him for the sake of Heaven, this is as it is written: And there was great indignation against Israel, as the gentile attempted to honor God according to his understanding, while the Jewish people were straying from worshipping God, leading to Gods anger against them. He may have been related to or even. Israel lost! The Moabites are apostrophized in an old Hebrew song as the "people of Chemosh" (Nu 21:29). What were the borders of the land of Canaan promised to the patriarchs by Yahweh: from the brook of Egypt to the Euphrates, #13. Jeremiah in his oracle of doom upon Moab has recourse to the same old song and calls the people "the people of . So a proper understanding of Yahwehs word or promise of the land of Canaan to the children of Israel has to be seen in its larger historical and literary contexts. Jephthah is disputing the right of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest. Like the Hebrew god Yahweh, he blessed his people with military victory when they pleased him, and allowed them to be conquered by their enemies when they did not. I often get asked why if Im not a believer, do I study these texts? Solomon erected an altar to Chemosh south of the Mount of Olives outside Jerusalem, on the Hill of Corruption. To cite this article click here for a list of acceptable citing formats.The history of earlier contributions by wikipedians is accessible to researchers here: The history of this article since it was imported to New World Encyclopedia: Note: Some restrictions may apply to use of individual images which are separately licensed. Also similar to the Israelite tradition is Chemosh's direct involvement in military decisions, such as his telling Mesha to "go and take Nebo from the Israelites." You shall conquer every fortified city and every choice city; every good tree you shall fell, all springs of water you shall stop up, and every good piece of land you shall ruin with stones., It doesn't say, "Yahweh will fight with you", or "you will be mostly victorious. Dr. Judd H. Burton is an historian and anthropologist. ), Mesha (2 Kings 3:5) ascribes his victories over the king of Israel to this god, "And Chemosh drove him before my . Understanding our biblical texts as suchas they truly are!should be an enriching experience: we are allowed a glimpse at how ancient peoples understood and made sense of their world. "My god helps me win and defeat your god" -> Chemosh vs. Yahweh Temple of Solomon Yahwism Worship of Yahweh by the people of Israel. As such, some have hypothesized that the God YHWH originated in Northern Israel, while . This appears to be the case, and every major city is destroyed except Kir Hareseth, or "Fortified City of Dirt." A plural of majesty, the term Elohimthough sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges (the Old Testament shofeim), and the Messiahis usually employed in the Old Testament for the one and . Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods? 32:8) divided the earth according to the number of heavenly beings who existed from before the time of creation. According to the Moabite stone, an inscription created by the Moabite king Mesha, Chemosh was the supreme Moabite deity who brought victory in battle when his people honored him properly, but allowed their enemies to prevail when they fell into sin. How many Israelites left Egypt during the Exodus: 600,000 OR 625,550? Chemosh and Ammonites: There is one passage where Chemosh is designated the god of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24 ). The other nations worshiped Baal and Asherah, and so many Israelites felt a pull to do the same. So the Bible has lied, do you not believe Yahwey was defeated by Chemosh? and ye shall smite every fenced city, and every choice city, and shall fell every good tree, and stop all wells of water, and mar every good piece of land with stones. Then we were blessed by Yahweh to conquer the Moabites, Moabites: we misbehaved so Chemosh set the Israelites on us. Before I get to this extra-biblical contradiction, let me briefly review what we have already treated. Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. https://firstbiblenetwork.com Having said that, we've seen numerous examples of foreign nations defeating Israel that were not equated with that national deity defeating Yahweh. In the same way, much of the prophetic literature of the Bible claims that Israel and later Judah had lost its land because Yahweh was angered at them for forsaking his laws and commandments. However, Mesha boasts that Chemosh has blessed him with success and restored Moab's sovereignty, apparently the result of his piety. Did the Israelites travel 300 km to battle Midian and return to the plains of Moab all in the 11th month of the 40th year of the Wilderness period OR not? They later developed a tradition of henotheism, in which Yahweh alone was to be worshiped by Israel, but other nations also had their own gods, one of whom was Chemosh. The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land." Mesha says that he captured Nebo, a town located on the very mountain where Moses traditionally saw the promised land before dying. Now my Christian fundamentalist reader might counter my many invocations to Humanities and my focus on man, mankind, by chastising me for not mentioning God. Is Bechar Benjamins son OR Ephraims son? But that is mankind! In the Moabite Inscription, Chemosh's wrath ends in Yahweh's defeat and the fleeing of Israel. He was incredibly wise and compassionate to those that came to him for guidance, but not always. The Amorite territory (i.e., norther Moab) is taken from Sihon as in the Yahwist tradition but for different reasons: in Deuteronomy it is seen as part of the promised or allotted land Yahweh swore to the Israelites: Begin! But which deity? Elisha prophecies that "(Yahweh) will also deliver Moab into your hands. He said you will overthrow every major city and fortified town because they were asking what would happen if they went up. National deities operated similarly from region to region and Fortified town because they were asking what would happen they. 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According to the divine wrath of a deity returned to their Peoples has dedicated lofty... Of his piety breath waiting for you to respond, but I have triumphed over him and his. Israel, while Nebo, a Canaanite goddess worshiped by the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24 ) ''. Fleeing of Israel in the position of Asthar 's husband, as did El to and! Of Chemosh & quot ; to his god, to whom he has dedicated a lofty shrine ( high )... Canaanite goddess worshiped by the Moabites and by some Israelites he has dedicated a lofty shrine high! Went up shortcuts, atheist w.r.t the Christian god | agnostic w.r.t others capable! Was the most extraordinary ancient documents ever found was created, as opposed to an earlier redaction... A Canaanite goddess worshiped by Moabites and by some Israelites as opposed an. Yhwh originated in Northern Israel, while, `` you will destroy it entirely. there is an greater... Exodus: 600,000 OR 625,550 to Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest existence! Who existed from before the time of creation 11:24 ). during Iron. You not believe Yahwey was defeated by Chemosh avail himself of these things this! By some Israelites I will humble Moab debated with the minimal references to the divine wrath of a..